對於這次研究訪談，還有什麼最後的想法嗎？

工作和「生產力」有這麼多種類型。我來自一個有更多體力勞動的地方，比如農業、修理機器。那些工作自動化的速度沒那麼快，雖然我們在農業中已經看到了。您如何看待不同工人階級之間的分歧——比如美國的藍領與白領？

當我們思考這場工業革命、自動化、工作的未來——也許人們的工作時間會減少——您認為靈性和宗教在其中扮演什麼角色？

關於科技、靈性、宗教實踐的這個交集——無論是內部還是外部，您還有什麼想說的，或是擔憂的、自我詰問的嗎？

回到基於文本的宗教以及 AI 如何擅長處理文本——但某些教派不希望文本被按字面意思理解；其核心是社群詮釋隨時間的演變，以文本為基礎。《聖經》被翻譯了很多次，有些內容被誤譯。您預見這將如何被調節？是透過信仰領袖 / 社群與擴散式 AI 的互動嗎？

許多宗教人士在日常生活中使用科技，但越來越多的人將其作為信仰的一部分——在應用程式上閱讀經文、在 Zoom 上參加禮拜。在您的靈性與宗教生活中，您和您的家人是否採納了任何「科技 - 宗教」的實踐？另外，您認為在哪些領域，科技有潛力或令人興奮地可以促進和增強宗教 / 靈性生活？

我覺得「世俗」（secular）這個詞被大量地使用，尤其是在菁英學校、科技公司和機構中。對您來說，「世俗」意味著什麼？您認為一個機構能真正地世俗化嗎？那又代表什麼？

尤其在當前的美國，以及歐洲部分地區，我們感受到對 DEI 的反彈——有些人稱之為「後 DEI 時代」。您對於在這種框架不僅不受歡迎，甚至可能需要改造的環境下，如何推動這類工作有什麼想法？

關於宗教為何被排除在最初關於多樣性的對話之外，您有什麼理論嗎？

許多大型科技公司——微軟、Meta 等——都是組織的縮影。沒有哪個「個人思想的教會」試圖成為宗教多樣性的領導者。您如何看待微軟的角色？

很多人一直將技術創新與人類經驗 / 身分 / 處境視為分離的——那種「你可以把靈性價值觀留在門外，專心創新」的想法，在美國企業文化中一直是常態。您會如何回應這一點？我們作為人類是複雜而混亂的，我們把這些帶到工作中。您是如何思考這個問題的，特別是從關懷的脈絡出發，以及如何透過關懷肌力和公民關懷的整合來使組織更強大？

在像微軟這樣的大型科技公司內部，有人擔心將宗教帶入工作場所可能會引發內部衝突。雖然這個計畫的目標絕不是要取代其他身分認同，而是希望將能與世界上大多數人產生共鳴的智慧帶入產品中，並為員工的整體福祉著想。作為一位深入思考多元宇宙的人，您對於轉化組織內的衝突與緊張關係，有什麼想法或建議嗎？

我們稍微談到了關懷的框架、水平對齊，以及與「靈」相關的層級挑戰。您認為在當前這個時代，科技設計師和科技公司還應該參考哪些其他的宗教或靈性框架或智慧？

很多人將科技公司和整個矽谷視為一種宗教，一種新的宗教。您對此有何看法？

您來自如此多元的靈性與宗教背景，又身處於可能同樣具有宗教與靈性多樣性的組織中，我們正在思考的一部分是，微軟內部如何能成為允許員工將完整的自我帶到工作場所的空間，包括他們的宗教和靈性實踐。您是否見過什麼促進宗教對話和承認多元宗教空間的最佳實踐？

有些人提出，像這類通用模型，是否應該具備某種程度的「拒絕」功能，或是在涉及宗教、身分認同以及社群正在討論的議題時，引導使用者去尋求外部資源？您是否思考過這些模式？

在我們推動這個計畫的研究過程中，我們一直在思考，在資訊的呈現上擁有宗教與靈性的多樣性意味著什麼。例如，許多宗教人士擔心這些模型可能輸出神學上不正確，甚至具冒犯性或有害的內容。我訪談過一位基於影像的迫害倖存者，她是一位穆斯林女性，她談到那些案例研究沒有得到足夠的測試。這裡面有太多的細微差別、案例研究和經驗法則，而宗教 / 靈性是一股不斷變動的力量。您如何看待這些概念在模型輸出中的「對齊」與「再現」？

您認為我們現在正處於某種 AI 競賽中嗎？許多公司試圖取得極其有限的硬體，並建造實體設施來容納它。您如何看待這種競賽式的論述，以及您所觀察到它在臺灣的呈現方式？我的理解是，晶片在臺灣扮演了極重要的角色。

您是否在今日的硬體文化或其他科技領域中，看到那種「水平對齊」或「泛靈論」視角的影響？

特別是在臺灣的脈絡下，其他類型的科技——硬體產業非常龐大——我想知道，除了 AI 之外，其他的技術進步，涵蓋整個技術堆疊，包括晶片等實體硬體，會如何受到靈性修練、宗教實踐的影響？這包括影響它們的框架和設計，也包括影響製造實體硬體的人員的日常體驗。

您談到了人們討論 AI 發展的兩種不同方式：一種是將超越人類的自主性發展，另一種是共善的發展。對您來說，一個更偏向共善或多元的 AI 發展會是什麼樣子？

我知道您也深入思考過許多關於科技、民主及其他領域的哲學與倫理框架。想請問靈性，特別是對您而言的道家思想以及其他思想流派，是如何影響您在這些領域的工作？

我很樂意開始。在這些訪談中，我第一個想和人們聊的，是宗教與靈性在您生活和工作中所扮演的角色。您可以隨心所欲地定義「工作」，也不必分享您個人的宗教和靈性信仰，只要談談這個主題是如何以任何形式出現在您的工作與生活中即可。

您能再確認一次，您同意為了研究目的進行錄音嗎？

Any last thoughts for the research interview?

There’s so many types of work and “productivity.” I come from a place with more physical work like agriculture, fixing machines. Those jobs aren’t automating as rapidly, though we’ve seen it in agriculture. What do you think about that divide between working classes—like blue-collar vs. white-collar in America?

When we think about this industrial revolution, automation, future of work—maybe people working less—what do you think the role of spirituality and religion is in that?

Anything else you want to speak to about this intersection of technology, spirituality, religious practice—internally or externally, things you’re worried about, or self-questions?

Looping back to text-based religions and how AI is good at text—but certain sects don’t want text taken literally; the core is moving community interpretation over time, with text as basis. The Bible has been translated many times, stuff mistranslated. How do you foresee that being mediated? Via engagement of ...

A lot of religious people use technology in everyday life, but more are using it as part of faith—accessing scriptures on apps, attending services on Zoom. Are there any techno-religious practices you’ve adopted in your spirituality and religious life, you and your family? Also, any spaces you think are promising ...

I feel like “secular” is a big word thrown around a lot, especially for elite schools, technology companies, and institutions. What does secular mean to you? Do you think an institution can be truly secular, and what does that mean?

In the US in particular right now, but parts of Europe too, we’re feeling backlash to DEI—some call it the post-DEI era. What are your thoughts about navigating this type of work where its framing is not only not welcome but maybe needs revamping?

Do you have theories about why religion was excluded from the original conversation around diversity?

So many big tech companies—Microsoft, Meta, etc.—are microcosms of organizations. There’s no church of individual thoughts trying to be a leader in religious pluralism. What do you think about Microsoft’s role?

So many people have seen technological innovation and human experiences/identities/positionalities as separate—the idea that you can leave your spiritual values at the door and focus on innovation has been the status quo in American corporate culture. How might you speak to that? We’re complicated and messy as humans, and we ...

Within a big tech firm like Microsoft, there’s concern that bringing up religion into the workplace could cause internal conflict. While the goal of this initiative would never be to supersede other identities, it’s to bring wisdom that resonates with the majority of the world into products and consider it ...

We talked a little about frameworks of care, horizontal alignment, and challenges of hierarchy with spirit. Are there other religious or spiritual frameworks or wisdoms that you think technology designers and technology firms should look to in these times?

A lot of people are considering tech firms and Silicon Valley at large as a religion, like a new religion. What do you think about that?

Coming from such a diverse spiritual, religious background like yourself, and being in organizations that are probably very religiously and spiritually diverse, part of what we’re thinking about is how Microsoft internally can be a space that allows employees to bring their whole selves to work, including religious and spiritual ...

Some people have brought up things like: should these general-purpose models have some element of refusal or pushing people to external resources about topics like religion, identities, and things communities are speaking about? Have you thought about those paradigms?

As we’ve been doing research with this initiative, we’ve been thinking a lot about what it means to have religious plurality and spiritual plurality in the representation of information. For example, a lot of religious people are concerned by how these models may output things that are not theologically correct ...

Do you think right now we’re in this AI race of sorts? Lots of companies are trying to secure very limited hardware and build physical instantiations to hold it. What do you think about this race-like competition discourse and how you’ve seen it play out, especially in the Taiwan context? ...

Do you see influences of that horizontal alignment or this animistic lens in today’s hardware culture or in other parts of today’s technology?

Especially in the Taiwanese context of other types of technology—hardware is huge—I’m wondering how other technological advancements besides just AI, across the stack including physical hardware like chips, can be influenced by spiritual practices, religious practices, both in their frameworks and design, but also the day-to-day experience of someone making ...

You talked about this difference between how people talk about AI development, like this agentic development that will supersede humans and this commons development. What would a more commons or pluralistic development of AI look like to you?

I know that you’re also someone who has thought a lot about philosophical frameworks, ethical frameworks in technology, democracy, and other spheres. How has spirituality, especially maybe Taoism for you and other schools of thought, influenced your work in those spaces?

I’d love to get started. The first thing I’d love to talk about with people for these interviews is the role of religion and spirituality in your life and your work. You can define work however you want, and you also don’t have to share your personal religious and spiritual ...

Can you confirm one more time that you’re okay with recording for research?