...let’s start again.

Hi, everyone! I am in Taipei with all the Dyne.org crew.

We are the lucky guests of the conference on the intelligent urban fabric.

I have the honor to be here with the Digital Minister of Taiwan: Audrey.

Yes! I’m Audrey Tang. I’m a poetician -- I write poems.

We are... [laughs] That’s very unpredictable and fantastic.

You remind me of our friend, Birgitta Jónsdóttir, that is also a great poet, and a great minister as well...

...and also anarchist.

...also anarchist, fantastic.

Basically, I am here to ask you about the platform that we run, Algorithmic Sovereignty Observatory in Europe.

What is the impact that you see in your work, and on the society of Taiwan, of algorithms?

The most powerful impact that they have, and what can be fixed? What can be improved?

For the sake of brevity, I’m just going say "code", but when I say "code", please think "algorithm".

Code is having a large impact, of course, because code is like law, but it’s not a law of text. It is a law of physics.

In cyberspace, code determine what can happen, what cannot happen; what is transparent, what is opaque; and things like that.

It establish a normativity that is legal by design, just like physics. You cannot violate a physics law, because it’s just not possible, right?

This basically has a different position than a text-based normativity, where you can do something -- it may or may not be illegal -- depending on the interpretation.

The impact is having a pre-set boundary that is either agreed by the social norm, which is a positive impact; or it’s set by a few people, which is a negative social impact.

That’s a fantastic suggestion. Also, should we talk about code? What is the difference between code and algorithms?

Code sometimes is a little bit more boilerplate, no? Algorithm is at the core, like how does it function.

I’m curious, why do you shift it to code?

First, because "code" and "text" are both one syllable. In a poet’s words, they rhyme better.

As for algorithms, it’s very difficult to rhyme "algorithm" with any other word... "Anarchism", I think, rhymes with "algorithm".

In any case, yes, the algorithm, of course, is the spirit that imbues itself in the code.

So when I say "code", think "algorithm", but what affects people is a manifestation of the algorithm, which is the code.

They are two: In the spirit, it’s algorithm. In the flesh, it’s code.

So it’s very much like law?

Yes, and like other spiritual beings. [laughs]

Hopefully, law experts that are watching us understand the nuance and understand how valuable is this transfer...

...well, the legal hermeneutics evolved from the spiritual hermeneutics, so they totally understand.

Fantastic, and you totally understand how to speak to Europeans.

Yes. [laughs]

I think you are very lucky here in Taiwan to have the legacy that you are creating. There is a government that is very enlightened. You are very young in spirit, in mind, but also...

...totally non-partisan. Post-partisan.

....and very dynamic. I hope that in Europe, we see more and more hackers that can actually shape and relate to the new generations.

To fork the democracy.

Yes. [laughs] We are working on it.

Thank you very much, Audrey.

Thank you so much. Cheers.

That is the best definition of algorithmic platonism I’ve ever heard.