How’s everything going?

Pretty good. How’s it going for you?

Not bad, pretty busy. But it’s kind of interesting, because right now we’re in an interesting position to see where we go from here.

With the data?

Especially with the data. The application tool, I think we still need to do some pushing and promotion for this. Ultimately, I think we have to get our names out, and we have to have established credibility.

Ultimately, the tool works. We think maybe hitting accelerators and incubators, helping them with the human resource part of it of getting this visa would help, once you start building from there.

Accelerate it.

[laughs]

Yes, accelerators accelerates. We accelerate the process to our accelerators, yes.

How many people have...?

For now, we have just one on our valley, but we are still preparing for the next phase. I don’t think right now we’re promoting, because the beta phase is very, very fundamental. It’s just stories, service providers, and then the tool.

This is actually why Didi is working with us as a consultant. She is of former...can I post that? OK, sorry.

For sure, good point. [laughs]

She is a former global marketing director for Gogoro. She did some awesome things, let’s just say. I think Gogoro owes a lot to what she’s been doing. She has been helping us with the consulting part of this, with a lot of it.

We can also tailor make features as needed by large organizations. It’s a classic, you’re switching from a 2C to a 2B model, and of course, you need a few early adopters, but you can tailor make solutions for them all the same.

We package it more.

At the second...

If you’re purely looking for business set-up from A to Z, we find you a local guide who can help you navigate the bank account systems. Another one, an easy immigration consulting, accountant, legal, if it’s all one package, then we can also give them some interesting deals.

That’s right.

Then we can also have another deal where it’s not just business consulting, but also helping you lifestyle-wise or educational resources, exactly.

You can even white label their whole website [laughs] for a large, multinational company. [laughs]

Seriously. That might be interesting ways of going forward with this. Actually, I wanted to give you an update, because ASVDA’s like, "OK, if we can establish this, this would also help us set out a lot, give us the access to resources." Especially, they can also explore Southeast Asia markets with the same model, too. We’ll see where we go from there.

That’s awesome.

We came here today, of course, to give you an update, because you’ve been so kind to supporting and everything. It’s always a pleasure chatting with you. Because we also do need to some fundraising, I know you had an idea last time about the milestone. It was a pay...

I keep forgetting the term.

Pay for priority.

Pay for priority.

Pay for priority.

It’s a more gentle way to say, "White labeling."

White labeling, yes. There you go. Pay for their priority. We’re paying for the priority. We’re seeing, how, if anything, I know you can’t, as a public official, you have your lines. Is there any type of guidance you could provide, because we are at this pivotal stage. Our costs keep increasing, because we have to keep growing this beta stage, beta phase.

Core funds are no longer enough to sustain this entire project. As we are opening up new functions, opening up the Chinese version of our site, we’re also going to have to have new people for that. Any guidance you can provide on that end, people who might be interested in where we’re going with this platform?

Sure. The first thing still is broaden visibility in the ex-pat community. I’m sure you...

We’re starting that process.

I think that’s something that can’t be skipped over, because after all, for an agency and a cross-functional agency as you are, trust is paramount. People need to trust that you’re not going away next week [laughs] before they hand out their services to you for a value-adding or for matchmaking.

Just some general confidence that you won’t go away next week. [laughs]

We’re going to be, "Bye."

[laughs] Exactly. Also, I think it’s very good to have a ministry, news lens, or a media outlet visibility and outreach program as well, because that reduces your ongoing maintenance cost.

All your system are indeed at this moment, it is actually one time. You can say, "We’ve got additional funding. This is what we’re going to end up with, and then we’re going to partner with media partners, with what we have."

If you want to say more, you’ve got to finance new investors or new patrons.

Right. I think we’re still at that very tip where we came out with the beta. It doesn’t exactly show where we’re going with it yet, it’s the very fundamental, and it’s more for our development idea about where we can take this.

Ultimately, we just have to establish ourselves’ name amongst the foreigner community. From there, hopefully we can also start cultivating our Chinese readers to understand where this platform is going and what the direction is.

I think it’s a slow process. We’re also tapping up chambers of commerces, AmCham, Canadian Chamber of Commerce. We actually just met a representative to see whether there might be alignment in what we’re doing, if there can be some win-win opportunities along those lines.

Any other types of guidance or any types of things, thoughts, or ideas so far?

I would like to get your view on this endeavor. What are your take on this positioning of this endeavor?

Of the entire...

Yeah, the Crossroads.

I agree with you. I think the trust needs to be established. there needs to be a few more testimonials, maybe even a working model that you can tell that story. I know you’re in beta right now, so it’s just trying to make sure it works before we flood it with traffic.

You’ve done a good job keeping some of those connections. I think there needs to be a few stories to be told that it’s possible. Even myself going through the tool, seeing all the parameters and stipulations that you need to have as an entrepreneur here, it looks pretty impossible to even get one of these things through.

What’s that story we can tell to say it’s possible?

It’s possible.

Does that means that we need to work with the government more closely to ensure that some of these things are being passed through? I think the tool’s a great idea. The branding is a great idea, as long as it’s validated and there’s testimonials. But, I think it remains to be seen if it’s actually going to be a possibility to get.

Exactly.

You can’t pass the visa, you just have the...

We’re just here to lead them to the door.

...the tunnel to the...Yeah, exactly. That would be my biggest gray area right now. As someone who’s potentially considering starting a consultancy, an agency, or something like that, or I have funds for doing so, I think it still looks pretty impossible. [laughs]

Oh, God.

No, not your tool.

No, to have to go through that whole process.

To actually get through the entire process.

You’re operating a agency by yourself here, as a ARC holder?

I have an ARC extension right now, so I’m able to potentially consult.

Awesome. [laughs]

She’s wonderful.

Yeah, for a few more months, but I have to think about my future and I have to think about what’s going to happen after that expires.

Maybe you get a gold card.

I would love to get a gold card, but that also looks kind of hard.

The processes...

I read a lot of stories that maybe it doesn’t actually even exist. Yeah, I’d love to.

On paper. [laughs]

Right, and I think that’s...

I’ve been hearing more successful cases now. Maybe it’s time to try.

If you can utilize your platform to tell these stores, great.

Yes.

I think there’s a massive skepticism in the foreigner community...

Yes! I read for Formosa or Taiwan, everybody says it’s impossible. [laughs]

Yeah.

Yes, they just give up.

Being very close to your content, translating it, and seeing the actual parameters of what I need to put through, I don’t know if I have the accreditations. I am glad these things are in the press and that Taiwan’s trying to get them through, but I want to see a few of my friends go through it and be able to tell the story myself.

We need to gather these stories. That’s what the whole media project is. Even if they didn’t go through our system, because there’s...

Just ensure that that process is tried and true.

Yes, tried and true.

Even though they don’t necessarily need an entrepreneur visa, we are going to be providing them all sorts of services to show them, "Hey, we can act as the umbrella organization to get all your service needs, giving you local guides, setting up your bank accounts, finding you a space." We plan to definitely use case studies to show what we’re doing to promote the good cause of Crossroads.

It has to start here, because I think the folks that are going to want these visas are folks that already are in love with Taiwan. Taiwan, as a brand, is a different problem or challenge, opportunity.

Yes.

[laughs] Opportunity.

I’d love to pick your brain on that, too.

A friend of mine and I are doing a talk next week with a New York Times reporter who’s promoting Taiwan culture in New York and some other folks who are working with Taiwan Tourism Bureau. I’d love to have you.

OK.

It’s next Wednesday. I’ll give you some information on it.

OK.

It’s a conversation I have all the time. I have a friend who’s helping to run...I don’t know if you’re familiar with Andrew Zimmern. He’s the "Bizarre Foods" guy.

It rings a bell.

TLC, right.

He’s potentially coming over here and doing a series.

Oh, cool.

They were asking some folks that are over here, "What would you pitch?" That’s a question. How do you position Taiwan as a brand? What do you want to show?

That’s right.

I think a lot of people hold the secrets close to their heart, because they don’t want it to be too exposed, but I also feel like there’s a huge opportunity to market it.

That’s right.

It dovetails into falling in love and wanting to start a business here.

Yes, yes, yes.

I don’t even work for the company that I came here for, and I don’t want to leave. [laughs]

We don’t want you to leave, either.

Thanks. I’ll stick around.

Please do.

I’d love to pick your brain about that, too, because I know that’s something that you’re working on.

It sounds like a dial-up thing.

There’s a new Economic Immigration Act. I’m sure you’re aware of it, [Taiwanese] .

Yes.

It’s in the 60-day public commentary period. It drastically lowers the gold card...

[gasps]

...criteria. I think it’s really less impossible. [laughs]

Less impossible? That’s good to know.

That’s very, very good to know.

It’s a little less impossible. To make it a priority bill in the next session, which is a budget session, it is actually pretty challenging. If you remember, the Foreign Talent Act was delayed by one session, some people say two sessions, because there was some concerns about the job market here.

About the job market?

Yeah, about the job market.

The job market, whether they can take...

Taking over Taiwanese jobs.

There’s a long debate about people qualifying for Foreign Talent Act actually creating more jobs than they take, and the jobs they create are better quality jobs, anyway. We’ve got some pretty large names investing hundreds of AI researchers, Microsoft, Google, Oath, etc.

There’s a general sense of, "Yeah, maybe they are creating jobs," and that helped getting the act actually passed. The new immigration act, because it actually lowers the balance quite a bit, there will be debate, and in a budget period, there is only certain weeks allocated for meaningful debate anyway.

Whether we can get it passed or not, it’s anyone’s call.

Yeah, it is a stretch, but help framing the narrative, too, from the perspective of a person who really want to contribute to Taiwan, not just in a economic sense, but as a brand-building sense. I think that will...

...massively help the message that the NDC is trying to convey to the parliament. This is a talent visibility play. This is not just a "we don’t have enough babies born, so we need more work force" play.

"We need more workers."

Which has been the main message, which is why I’m kind of worried.

"We need more workers."

That’s right.

It’s true, and getting out of that insular mind set, I think is the biggest issue because...

Is there something we can coordinate even in a media campaign for Crossroads with your consultancy? What’s the time line like for this bill? What do you think is the...?

It’s in the 60-day commentary period. I think it still has like 50 days to go, and then after which the NDC will take the public comments. If there’s lots of comments supporting it and nothing against it, it will go straight to the parliament, which begins the session, I think late September-ish.

I think it will start deliberating substantially in October. If it misses the October deliberation period, and it misses November, then it will be the next session. It will be next March, so there is a window in which that we need to get the public, if not enthusiastic, at least not opposing this act.

It will also help your message as well, because your whole message is like, "This is possible." Starting from the most possible one certainly beats the almost impossible, right?

Let’s hope.

Do you drum up public support for something like this?

Do you mean domestically?

Yeah.

Certainly, we get the job creators abroad to showcase their quality jobs, and the talent people loves the story that utilizes, for example, when the air lapse of those foreign multinationals speaking establishing in Taiwan.

We make sure that their message is on positive social impact, like how it will transform our education, on how it will empower the indigenous and to less empowered communities to revitalize their language with someone from the Common Voice project from Mozilla. I like that a lot, because it is participatory AI. It is not predatory AI.

Basically, by showcasing job creation opportunities that in the same time enhance the social welfare or enhance social solidarity, we’re saying, "The foreigners are here to help us to create a diverse society that can nevertheless find common values."

What people don’t like was in the old, pre-labor act era when there all we had was the 工廠法, the manufacturing plant act, in which practically every foreign company would do large investment in job creation here, as either tradeoff to either environmental sustainability or social stability. [laughs]

That’s not the kind of message we want to get across. Still, for people who are older, they still remember the days when the multinationals are here and hired a lot of foreigners, who are essentially in a different class. They may create some jobs, but at the expense of social solidarity or environmental sustainability.

There’s still some trauma left over...

Right. We’re now saying, like there’s a September, I think -- November? conference called GEC+, and it’s...

Yeah, I saw that one.

The idea is really pushing it, and it’s part of the Global Entrepreneurship network, and so they’re going to have their own conference here in Taiwan, the summit. Just like in the digital economy, Digital Innovation Forum, which was a APAC thing.

Still, what we’re saying is that we’re enabling social impact with AI-plus, I would say. Whatever technology and whatever jobs we create, those are just instruments.

The values are sustainable development, and the values are social solidarity, positive social impact, and so on. That’s the main narrative. Just by saying, "Here are these people who are looking to contribute to Taiwan’s social or environmental..."

It’s definitely in line with...

Rebranding the goal of all the foreign investment...

To increase diversity, and for the general social good.

I think these are stories that we can...Let’s see, because if it’s early October, and we’re doing our media campaign aiming to do it late September, maybe we could coordinate or something.

Yeah. There’s a similar campaign from New Zealand a few years ago where they called a Global Impact Visa, or GIVs.

They partnered with the Edmund Hillary Foundation to give this special visa that you don’t need any investment. You don’t need any qualification other than that you demonstrate that you can create positive social impact somewhere, and you’re willing to take those skills to New Zealand.

They give you funding, fellowship, investment, and whatever. One of the -- I think it was a lawyer or someone who applied for this, specifically to help the Maori people to give their river personhood, legal personhood.

The river can be part of the board. The river can be part of anything, just like a company, and the river is collaboratively, their interest is being represented by someone from the government and someone from the tribe. That’s because they have a very interesting constitution that is basically a treaty between the Maori people and the colonizers.

This allows for this new kind of legal invention, but then it puts a whole new spin on venture philantrophy, on impact investing, because you’re treating, just like the Maori people did, a river as a person.

And donating to the river’s spirit. If the river gets polluted, it’s physical harm to that legal person then.

...file a lawsuit.

Right. The river can file a lawsuit.

That’s really interesting.

That’s what this kind of narrative does, because at the same time, New Zealand is also bringing up other kinds of resets of courts. By focusing on these kind of stories, the New Zealand see those foreigners as enhancing the Maori spirit or enhancing the local sustainability campaigns.

That’s cool.

Some stories like that, I think would be very useful.

We interviewed some foreign entrepreneurs, write it up in English, make it maybe even into a, hopefully, video program, videos translated into Chinese as well. Distribute it across Crossroads, distribute it in English across foreign communities.

That’s right.

Let’s see what we could do with that, where we can...And maybe have some discussion on Crossroads, because ultimately, we still need to build these tools in.

Yeah, of course.

Where people can have that cross-lingual exchange, and where they’re looking at the same issues, and where we can actually do some engaging about where people are standing and where they’re from. That would be interesting data.

That’s right. What’s the dialogue next Wednesday?

I have a friend who runs a blog who’s trying to bring these Taiwan branding conversations into a bigger light, so we have about a hundred folks coming to drink wine and talk about it. We have a panel. If you want to be on our panel...

When is this?

Next Wednesday.

Like, which hour?

6:30pm to 9:30pm. It’s at a space called G92.

OK...

It’s underground. Have you heard of it?

Mm-mm.

It’s a new work space. We’ve got Bloomberg, "The New York Times," and some other folks from the media there. We’ve got some government officials. We’ve got folks who are working for agencies related to the tourism bureau. She’s called the tourism bureau out on a lot of things.

Tricky Taipei.

Tricky Taipei.

Tricky Taipei, I don’t know if...

Oh, yeah.

It’s her...

Yeah.

Because she causes the headaches.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s great.

She ultimately wants it to succeed. She’s a marketer, and that’s how I got to be friends with her, because we have marketing discussions.

She’s cool.

We’re trying to get more communication with the locals and foreigners together, and having everybody get to know each other.

Awesome. I’ve got at that time slot, a hackathon here to attend to so I may or may not be able to join, but because PIDIS Is like 22 people, I’m sure that someone will be interested.

Yeah, that would be great, please.

Can you maybe send me an email?

Yes, I can, and I’ll still send...

I’ll circulate it.

That’s awesome.

You already have it.

Yeah, we already have it.

Yeah, we already have it. No need. Save your cards.

Perfect.

There you go. Yes.

Thank you.

Cool, so that’s done. Anything else you would like to explain?

No, really, I just wanted to have...Oh, yeah.

I still have a question. Later on, we were thinking about building a membership system for Crossroads, and that kind of ties in with the data privacy, with the GDPR and other things.

We did try to do ourselves some research online about the languages and the method that the GDPR requires, but we’re not certain, 100 percent, like GDPR-proof. I’m wondering if you know of any resources that can help us navigate the data privacy...

There is stuff out there we know, but we’re not sure if through your position or your resources, is there a unit that helps with this, with compliance?

Yes. The NDC itself, actually...

Really?

Oh, really?

...is the main office.

I didn’t know that.

Yeah. [laughs]

We can consult with NDC?

Yeah, the NDC just recently opened a GDPR negotiation office. They’re the main office to negotiate with the EU on compliance, and also, it’s the main coordinator of the various ministries that provides GDPR consultancy.

If you just google "NDC GDPR", you’ll find it.

NDC GDPR?

That’s our main office.

As a private company, we can consult them?

Yes.

Do we have to pay? Is this a free service?

There’s some guidelines...

I’m just curious.

...and I’m sure if you have specific questions, that they’ll also refer you to capable teams within the Ministry of the Economy or other ministries. Start there.

We’ll see where it goes.

If you run into anything, just let me know. You can truthfully say that you’re part of the SVDA push, which is one of the NDC’s main motivations anyway. They’ll be super motivated to help you.

Awesome. NDC has always been our friend. They’re a wonderful organization, so let’s see. I didn’t know about this unit, though. That’s pretty cool news.

It’s very new.

Yeah, it is.

That’s good news.

Two months old or something.

How long?

Two months old.

Two months.

Oh, nice.

It’s very new.

We didn’t know about this.

Perfect timing.

That’s wonderful timing.

Maybe they’re also in beta.

Maybe, most likely.

Maybe they need some beta testers.

...a proof of concept.

I know, proof of concept.

I guess we’ll have to test it. We’ll go test.

That’s right.

Any other things? It was just a quick chat, just to say hi. It’s always fun to see you. We’ll see where we can go with this. Especially if you are trying to push the narrative for that, if you need any type of coordination. We’re thinking we’re going to aim this media project hopefully end of September, but ultimately we’ll just have to see how that goes.

OK.

If there’s any particular things you want us to mention in these interviews, please do let me know. We can include it. We’re getting David Green involved, also, I’m thinking either as a news lens or as himself, so he can also create a better narrative about what we’re doing with this interviewing. We’ll see.

Just quick, informal survey. How many of you have a 自然人憑證, maybe for tax purposes?

For tax, yeah.

Do you have one?

I don’t think so.

Are you aware that you can have one, as well?

I don’t know.

Probably not.

I don’t think so.

That’s one of the narratives where we’re also...

What is the name of the card?

It’s called 外來人口自然人憑證.

What’s it called, like natural...What’s the English meaning? I never remember the English meaning. It’s like a digital ID.

It is a digital ID.

Oh, OK.

You can use it to sign documents, to file tax, to apply for insurance, etc.

Oh, wow.

What we found is that, while many Taiwanese people here to have this Citizen Digital Certificate (自然人憑證) for tax purposes, the ARC holders very rarely know that this service is good for ARC holders, as well.

From a marketing standpoint, the fact that it’s called a "natural person card" deters me right away.

[laughs]

I feel like I’m not a natural...

Natural person?

...resident here.

You’re artificial?

Right, and if we put "Alien" in front of it...

An alien natural?

Alien natural person.

I’ve always aspired to be an alien natural.

It’s cool.

It’s a cool title.

The O-1 visa of the USA is called literally "Alien of extraordinary ability".

That’s pretty cool. I want that.

I want that, too!

Wasn’t there a movie called "Leagues of Extraordinary Gentlemen" or something?

Yeah, "League of Extraordinary Aliens."

A while back, with Sean Connery.

"League of Extraordinary People." [laughs]

We’re brainstorming on the branding for that.

E-residency, 100 percent makes more sense.

What about Taiwan Identification Card, that works?

Sure, yeah.

...definitely sounds good.

The current name is 外來人口自然人憑證, or 外人憑證.

Like 老外.

This 外 often translates to Alien, though I don’t think it’s the most catchy translation...

Maybe it has a little picture of an alien.

That’d be cute.

Or just Y Card, where Y doesn’t stand for anything?

Just a Y Card?

The Y Card, sure.

It sounds like a wild card...

Yeah.

[laughs]

Just call it 外卡, wild card.

老外 wild card.

The LW card.

The L-dub.

L-dub, L-dubs here.

Grab your LWC.

外卡, yeah. That may catch on.

It is.

Was this a recent thing?

Yeah. 自然人憑證 has been around for years, but it only started issuing to ARC holders not even two years ago. It’s good for anything that we can use it for. It’s used as a single sign-on system for practically anything.

Your labor history.

Yes. Traditionally, people think ARC, and it doesn’t translate into online service, because it is not really a card you can do e-signature, according to the Digital Signature Act. Now, we start issuing this card to ARC holders, as well. They’re good as a signature or seal, so it could be used for all kinds of official things.

Plus, it’s actually a combo card, so you can use NFC to just beep your phone, so it’s also super convenient.

Nice.

But nobody knows about it. [laughs]

We need to talk about it.

Is there already English content that’s floating out there in the nethers that we can have?

We’re working on a more catchy branding than just literal translation of 外來人口自然人憑證...

"Alien natural person card," oh, God.

That’s a great name. Actually, kind of catching on.

Alien natural person?

Alien natural person, it’s got a beat to it.

Maybe not...

Alien-natured person.

Yeah, exactly, alien nature.

Yeah, a person with alien nature. [laughs]

We’re special.

Very special.

Once we get some ideas out, maybe we can follow up with this conversation.

Even send some information, even if you need help with the English translation. Right now, at Crossroads, a lot of our content is uniquely translated all the time. Foreigners, of course, want to know what Chinese information is out there. They also want the same know-how or same knowledge. If there’s only Chinese content, but you think it’s useful to foreigners, feel free to pass it to us.

The labor taxation, health care, banking, traditionally, because all of these are mostly offered to natural citizens only...

Taiwanese citizens.

...so even after it’s issued to ARC holders, most of the content is not in English yet.

We’ve seen that.

...which adds to the reason why very few people know about it in the foreign community.

The tax system is in English now, right?

That’s right.

That’s the newly updated this year.

That’s the one system we worked on, yes.

Of course, it’s for the money. [laughs] It’s the most important.

There was complained about some much last year.

OK. Please send me information about the event for next Wednesday.

Yeah, that’d be great.

Once we have some ideas, I’ll let you know.

Any type of practical information...We had stuff from Eiger, the law firm, about Labor Standard Act. Those spread like wildfire. You definitely see that there’s a lack of information, and everyone’s craving this. Anytime there’s information we can help spread, that would be wonderful.

Awesome.

Cool.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.