Then afterwards, in 2008, I will join Socialtext with also CL Kao, my co-founder in the OurInternet days, and stats continued from 2008 all the way to 2013, ‘14-ish. I still am retained as a independent contractor at that time starting in 2010, not only with Socialtext, but also with Apple. In 2013, it would also bring me to work with the Oxford University Press.