Great. Thank you. I thought we would start with I had some questions about particular things that you guys were doing during the early pandemic response, and then we can move on to more abstract questions I have for you about the Taiwan model.

You talked about transparency a lot as one of the key pillars in your work here. One of the ways in which that value really expressed itself was via open data when it came to the real-time mask supplies.

I was wondering, just starting from when you guys tapped in to the effort, if you could walk me through the various initiatives in which there was a move of some kind to open up more data, government data to civic hackers to the public community, if we could just go through that.

Wait, but you said there’s still a 30-minute window?

The Open API was available for the supply of masks at all the different pharmacies.

Were there any other data sets?

Same day?

By the end of the first day, it was already OpenAPI.

A few clarifying questions on what you just said.

First of all, sorry, what are number tokens? How does that system…?

Oh, I see.

It’s like a reservation.

Yeah, I see, thanks. Then when you’re describing a lot of that, you said, “Starting with the first day of the mask rationing policy, we kept pushing the NHIA.” When you say we, do you mean the digital ministry, you guys here in the government?

Beyond the real-time mask supplies, were there any other more qualitatively different datasets that you guys put on OpenAPI or that you guys pushed the boundaries of transparency by opening up to this open data philosophy?

No problem.

Sorry, what kind of console is this?

Oh, wow.

That’s very cool.

Nothing of the travel history?

It’s in the other direction. Where does that mechanism get triggered? Who has the information and at what point? Who comes in to say, “OK, when it comes to the next level, we’re going to intentionally not make this information public”?

You attribute that to…

…Minister Chen, but you described it as the Pygmalion effect?

The way that you described that sounds like it has a lot of overlap with your own view, right?

Was it that you guys both just happened to see eye-to-eye, be aligned when it comes to these things?

Actually, he’s had a huge influence on you when it comes to developing…

You mentioned these weekly mask meetings. Are they still happening?

That’s when it concluded. Do you guys still have any regular or semiregular meeting at the high levels to focus on coronavirus?

I think in the last one or two weeks, anecdotally, I’ve been talking to people, including just regular people, who it seems to me like they’re a little bit more worried.

I think they’re looking at imported cases, but they’re also looking at some of these confusing, like the Belgian guy, for example and some of these other cases, where there are no symptoms detected until people leave.

How are you feeling about that stuff right now?

OK, thanks for that. At a certain point, I know that part of the response was actually this really smooth and effective collaboration between you and the social sector. I think prominent within the social sector is g0v. Could we start from just how you first got involved?

Yeah, because I know that you…

I understand g0v to be this decentralized network…

At the same time, would it be fair to say that there’s certain members who take more of an organizing role?

When it comes to the pandemic response, can you talk specifically about when that collaboration between social sector, g0v, and the government was at its maximum?

OK. In relation to COVID.

That’s cool.

Yeah, well…

Before the general channel became the mask channel and COVID-19 channel, how many members were in the general channel?

To your mind, what are the links between the Sunflower movement and the public response to the Sunflower occupation and 2020 government trust, social trust, and how all of that came together in this pandemic response?

In the scheme of escalating US-China tensions, we have an election coming up. The US is obviously dealing with a lot of its own democratic public trust issues.

I wonder if you could say a little more about where Taiwan’s place is in all of this.

“If you have the ability, then come on board.”

It’s punchier.

It sounds like another big factor there is that it’s another argument for how technology can empower democracy.

I think we’ve talked a lot about how, when it comes to technology, a lot of it is the communication elements of it. It’s a speaker phone. You can listen. You can speak, but you also have to listen.

When it comes to these new data tools, it’s the ability to create more robust and more accurate data that then everyone – it doesn’t matter what party you’re in – has to buy into.

Great. That’s all I’ve got for you. This is really helpful.

There’s a stark contrast, obviously, between Taiwan and China right now, the different directions they’re moving when it comes to technology and governance. From an American perspective, it’s a case study and how technology has gone wrong when it comes to elections and the damage that technological tools can have on a democracy.

It looks like in Taiwan, it’s a case study to maybe show things that have been going right…