But it’s also possible to reverse that cycle, and it’s possible to do that anywhere. The first acts of government putting trust in people begins to turn that the other way. I think that’s what you can see from examples around the world, where just the first experiments with a citizens’ assembly, like in Ireland in one of our other episodes, or in Norway, or a big participatory budgeting effort in the city of Paris, or a climate assembly in the city of Brussels. These sorts of things begin to create a different relationship, and anywhere in the world, it can begin from there.