Thank you so much.

All right, let’s stop here. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I really appreciate it.

So we can reuse what looks like waste—how creative! Thank you.

As an author of a book about cleaning as meditation, let me ask you about entropy. Historically, humanity has produced countless concepts without “cleaning up,” so the logos world is quite messy. We have so many words and ideas that it’s overwhelming. As we anticipate a new literacy era, do ...

Yes, fluid—illustrating that the specific text is less important than the vector of meaning. We’re in the age of AI, but also in an age that calls for new literacy. What do you think of new literacy in this context?

But it’s never the moon itself. The moon is beyond language or rational description—like truth or deeper values. Religious people sometimes get stuck on the finger, declaring, “This text is the only truth.” But large language models treat words more like vectors.

Exactly. It reminds me of the old metaphor of finger and moon: the “finger” is language—could be the Bible, a sutra…

One more thing: about AI, especially large language models—I feel my notion of literacy has changed significantly since using them. These models analyze text in vector spaces. I used to focus heavily on exact wording, but now, every translation prompt I give a large language model comes back slightly differently, ...

That’s a really interesting view.

Do you consider yourself a long-term thinker or a short-term thinker?

(laughs) Exactly. Building on that, people often ask me about growth or having a purpose, a dream, or a goal. But for someone like you, who essentially lives only one day at a time—what does having a goal or a purpose mean?

Yes, we need a funeral for human superiority among species, but also within humanity—so many people feel they must be superior to fellow human beings, right?

As a Japanese Buddhist who often leads funeral ceremonies, I wonder: what would you like to hold a funeral for?

Yes, or it could be GDP.

When I ask, “How can we become good ancestors?” people often think, “What can I leave behind?” But we might also need to consider what we should stop or put an end to, so as not to leave certain burdens behind.

Exactly. Let me shift the question slightly.

Yes. In this animistic perspective, we don’t need to position humans as superior.

Yes. So, in this way, we’re different. That’s why thinkers come to me wanting to talk about the relationship between AI and animism, which recognizes spirit or presence in everything—animals, plants, stones, rivers.

Yes. We used to think we were special because of our rationality and logos, which enabled science and civilization. But ironically, that capacity produced AI, which now seems to dominate the logos realm—better programmers, etc. So we need a new foundation for uniqueness. Thinkers are rediscovering, “We are animals,” with ...

That aligns perfectly with my recent thinking. We’re witnessing a shift in the meaning of “humanity,” especially in cultures heavily influenced by the Abrahamic religions, where humans are considered special, separate from other species—“We’re not Neanderthals.”

I see. From your philosophical perspective, we’ve focused on human choices, but how do you view animals, plants, and every other form of life and matter? Recently, thinkers in the Western world—like our mutual friend Glen Weyl—have approached me to discuss AI and animism. I’m curious how you include non-human ...

That’s very inspiring. I often share your perspective with other leaders when I ask, “How can we become good ancestors?” Sometimes they worry that if we leave too many options or too wide a canvas, people get confused. What do you think?

I see. Could you elaborate on the “wider canvas”?

But that ancestor of yours said, “Leave more options for future generations to choose.”

Right, your previous lifetime.

I once asked you online, “How can we become good ancestors?” It was a privilege to hear your answer—“good-enough ancestors.” Do you remember how you responded?

I’ve always felt you’re like someone from the future. Meeting you in person, I still feel you’re like a bodhisattva.

The most important key is space—yes, in Japanese, 空 (ku) means emptiness or void, a central concept in Mahayana Buddhism.

It sounds like the mindset of people in Japan’s Edo period, where they’d earn money in the daytime and spend it in the evening, living day by day. From your perspective, how do you see this world that’s so focused on control, power, and ownership?

That’s easy to say, but for most people, even if they understand it intellectually, they still feel, “I need more money, more property,” and so on.

I see. So after eight hours of sleep, you get reborn, live one day, and die?

Because you were always at risk of death, could you elaborate on your notion of ego or self?

You’re a product of many different ancestral lineages.

Lucy, yes.

I’d love to hear about your feelings and thoughts around your own ancestors. I don’t just mean blood-related family ancestors but also teachers, friends who’ve passed away, even historical figures…

Yes, totally agree.

So humility is central—like the philosophy of Socrates, who acknowledged the limits of our perception. The notion of a “perfect human” is an illusion and is very limiting. In that sense, I find something very similar in your message and Shinran’s.

In regret, he left the mountain and went down to the city, where he met his teacher, Hōnen, who taught a different way of Buddhism—one open to anyone, not just monks. In this tradition, people accept that they can’t fully become enlightened by themselves because of attachments and other human ...

What you said resonates very strongly with the philosophy of Shinran in Japan. Shinran was the founder of Jōdo Shinshū and made a great effort to seek enlightenment on Mount Hiei—like a university for Buddhist priests at that time. But after 20 years of practice, he realized, “I can’t fully ...

Wow. Such a beautiful job description, in the first place.

Yes. Could we start by hearing your thoughts and ideas around this “good-enough ancestor”?

What you said really resonated with me, so I was happily surprised as the translator of the book. You have a message around ancestors, right?

Yes. When I translated the book Good Ancestor from English to Japanese—just before publishing—I had a chance to meet you online, live. That was really a great opportunity to ask a question: “How can we become good ancestors for the future generation?”

Thank you so much for joining this podcast. It’s great to finally meet in person.

I will ask about your memory or relationship with ancestors, and from that question, go deeper—not only about your life story, but also your philosophy and vision for future generations.

Yeah. Okay. So this podcast is around the question: “How can we become good ancestors for the future generation?”

Sure, sure. A textual transcript.

Thank you. And also, you said you want to use this one, so…

I have a podcast program in English.

Public domain. So, okay, how can I use this precious conversation with you?