I know you said that you and Howard had already met on g0v. How did you guys end up talking? Did you just Slack him, “Howard, I heard you got a bill”?

[laughs] You were going to negotiate the bill for Howard?

The next day, he logged on, and the bill from Google was $26,000. Maybe this isn’t right, but I’d want to make sure. We heard that you offered to help pay for some of that.

It’s so simple and so smart. Howard does the convenience store version of the map. Howard told us that, on day one, he had a bill for $2,000. He was expecting $10, $20. He saw the $2,000 bill and he thought, “You know what? This is worth it. I’m helping ...

That’s smart. It’s so simple to know there’s two stores in the whole country that will sell medical-grade masks. Don’t waste your time going anywhere else. Just go to these two types of stores only.

They were selling them already?

I see. The convenience stores would have applied for the license to sell medical-grade masks before the pandemic even hit?

Did that mean that a gas station will never have a mask, so don’t even waste your time?

Everyone was going everywhere, to gas stations, to any store imaginable, looking for masks. In Taiwan, the people knew these two stores are the two stores that will sell masks.

I’m trying to think about it like in the United States. No one ever said, “Hey, Americans. The masks are always going to be at convenience stores and pharmacies, so don’t waste your time going to Costco or Target. They’re not going to have masks.”

Just so that I get this clear, I get this right, was it that the government decided convenience stores and pharmacies could sell masks? Was that a decision that someone made?

It worked, I think in part, because my understanding is someone in Taiwan’s government made a decision that they were only going to sell masks at convenience stories. Is that correct? That was one of the early decisions?

What did you think? Describe what the map looked like for us.

We’re going to do that again a little bit slower. I’m going to go step-by-step first. You found out about his map on the news. Did you type on, “where is the closest map near me?” Did you use the map?

He told us about a garbage truck app that he made where you track the garbage truck. He said this is one of the reasons why he made his mask availability map. There’s too many people waiting in lines, looking for masks. How did you first hear about Howard’s map?

I’m going to switch now. I’m going to get back into the drills later. For now, I’m going to switch back to Howard Wu, or switch to Howard Wu and his maps app. We talked to Howard Wu last week. He told us that there are a bunch of things ...

Is that a center that is around for epidemics? Has this been around since 2004?

You keep saying the CECC. Will you just tell me what that is?

That’s great. This was put in place in 2004 after SARS 1.0, and the infrastructure for this stayed around? It wasn’t like, “Oh, gosh, that was 16 years ago. We forgot about that thing”?

Wow, 95 percent pickup rate, meaning 95 percent of the time, someone picks up the phone?

When I hear a hotline, me coming from a US experience, [laughs] I think a hotline like I’m going to leave a voicemail. Nothing’s going to happen with it. You’re saying your hotline is different. Someone is constantly answering this line?

Wow, because of this little boy?

You said he was wearing the color that heroes wear?

This hotline is basically like a daily press conference? Are daily conferences held, but people can call into this hotline to ask…

Communication, early is the most important thing?

Super early. Tell us again, for our listeners who may not know, how Taiwan was hit pretty hard by the SARS 1.0, as you said.

By January 1st, 2020, Taiwan was already screening flights from Wuhan?

Ah, that makes me feel so much closer to you. We’re going to get right into this. Take us back to the early, early days of the pandemic, like maybe before it had spread all over the world. What were you thinking in Taiwan? What were people feeling in Taiwan?

From Earth, is the best answer we’ve ever gotten to where are we talking to you from.

Where are you talking to us from?

Great.

We can say whatever, if that’s your preferred pronoun.

It means whatever?

We could also do they/them. You tell us. We’ll chose whichever one.

[laughs]

Great.

Yeah.

Can you say that slower for us?

Do you want to say your name and title for us?

Oh, great! That’s wonderful to hear in case we end up having to talk to you a little bit longer than we had originally scheduled. That’s great. Thank you for that. My little disclaimer is that we may interrupt you a little bit. To make sure we get all the ...

I’m one of the hosts of the show. I’m going to start by giving you this little disclaimer that we normally do really long interviews, and we don’t have that much time with you for Planet Money.