You have to build it before you can use it?

I think so. Not everybody agrees with that. That’s also become hyper politicized in our…

My wife works for a public broadcasting system.

We do have national public radios.

I think maybe they are too. How should we approach that problem? Do you advocate for more government regulation over these tech platforms, and how should that be set up?

In Washington, the debate is over whether or not these technology platforms are now the most powerful.

Sure. I do want to talk about this. I’m just curious about this idea of how anarchism and democracy can coexist, because in a purely conservative anarchist system, there would be no governments or there would be no democracies.

I find it a little bit ironic that you are a conservative anarchist, and also managing a government bureaucracy. Is there a contradiction there?

Was that when you decided to become a public figure and to become involved in the political and even the bureaucratic process?

Was that when you decided to become politically active?

Was that 2014, Sunflower movement?

Sunflower Occupy.

Wonderful.

What did that history and that experience, how did that inform your — I don’t want to say nationalism — I want to say your commitment to service and also your philosophy about this country and what needs to be done to protect it.

Can you tell my readers a little bit about your background? I understand that you come from a family that had a long history of service to this country. Your grandfathers both fought in WW2.

If it’s OK, can I now go back and talk a little about your life and how you got here, because I think it’s an interesting story that informs this philosophy. It’s an unlikely story because you came from a world that was not for politics.

When I hear you talk about this, I can’t help thinking that this is very much in line with the philosophy of flatten government, open source, civic engagement, the removing of bureaucracy and institutions from governance. It’s something that you’ve believed in for your whole life.

That’s a big project.

You have to institutionalize media literacy and information literacy.

What if there’s no consensus at all, how does that affect people’s right to free speech? In other words, does the right to free speech include the right to spread disinformation?

Here we are, now the debate in Washington has become debatable on who gets to determine what is the…Who is the arbiter of disinformation?

In our country, there’s no agreement on, you could have the two cameras pointed at the same election worker, and each party would have a completely different reading of the reality of that situation. In fact, that’s what happened. What are we supposed to do in that situation?

I’m just trying to apply that to our own conspiracy theories about election fraud, and I can’t imagine a situation where Republicans and Democrats will work together to debunk information. It assumes that the two parties have a shared interest in doing that, but what if that doesn’t exist?

It’s a joke by the way.

I wish the CIA was so capable…

How do you think about the challenge of cognitive warfare and social media platforms?

When you think about cognitive warfare, that also comes through legal means of media and social media, and is one of your areas of interest and responsibility to influence operations, digital influence operations, that may be on TikTok, or may be on Facebook, or may be on Instagram. Is that ...

Do you think this is an evolution of the tactics of the Chinese government and how they use cyber attacks from disruption, to cognitive warfare, and influence?

Immunized.

What are the lessons from that attack? What did that attack teach us that previously we didn’t know?

To broaden it out, what is the concept of digital resilience that you’re pursuing? Do you have a popular buy-in for this amongst the…?

Is the Taiwanese government interested in bringing Starlink capability to Taiwan? Is that something that…?

I see. Is the plan to take it nationwide then?

In where? I’m sorry?

Does that capability exist now or is that…?

When I hear you talk about digital resiliency, I’m wondering, what is your view of the fact that Ukraine is so dependent on the system? Is this part of the thinking to create an alternative to that sort of…

It’s important for me to tell you a little bit about the discussion that’s going on in Washington regarding Taiwan. Right now the number one discussion is over a Starlink. Because there’s a huge debate going on of the fact that the Ukrainian side in Ukrainian military is so dependent ...

Because this is one of the benefits of me coming all the way here, is that to share a little bit about the discussion about Taiwan that’s going on in Washington, and feed that back into the discussion of what’s going here.

I understand that it’s sensitive to talk about a possible military contingency, but let me try anyway.

I agree with all that, but it’s also become a critical military technology for keeping there. Is that part of the vision that you are building with this program?

Is this born out of a recognition of how the Ukrainians have…?

When we look at — you’re wearing your Ukraine shirt — and when we look at what’s happening in Ukraine, digital resiliency is a massive issue as they struggle for their survival, for their freedom?

This is also useful in the case of a military contingency?

This is digital resilience?

That example of 5G mobile? Can you talk a little bit more about that?

How has that gone so far?

…to the ministry. You’ve been open for two months?

Interesting. That was a little bit of a diversion, but let me get back…

How does that serve to fight the disinformation about the vax? How are you able to minimize the impact of anti-vax?

That makes me feel better about my choice.