Yes, yes, thank you.

So we could be on their back and trying to make it a snowball effect across Central Europe, so it’s not only one country doing it, which can be pressured, but if there is more of it, that’s our hope.

Sometimes on NGO level and some, hopefully, in the future all government to government level because those things don’t start easily as, you know, because of the diplomatic sensitivities, but we have the brave friends who already started many things.

Well known here yes, and his party actually now has the foreign minister in four dimension post, so they are on the right side finally, and they want to do things with Taiwan but quite often they don’t know how exactly so that’s our role, how to be, informally helpful ...

For example, you might remember this Czech senate speaker who was here, two years ago, in September 2020, his party just won the elections and have the prime minister . So basically their are policy in many aspects will be close to it and you likely would know the mayor ...

Get you to Prague for one or two days. You would see a lot of Prague and a lot of good people there, who are all good friends of you and your work. That could be a good foreign policy push as well. Finally, with confidence can say we have ...

Thank you very much for that. We will be communicating here with MoFA to see how we plan the activities starting, hopefully, in March, all these fellowships. I would like to be also connected to see if once you travel to Europe, we could hopefully make a good sense of ...

Yes. Maybe I’ll ask if I can connect also on Signal, so I don’t email these things. Some of those are more sensitive in the future as well, so I will communicate through there.

This is a good advice for us.

Perfect. If anyway we could be helpful happy to be helpful.

Thank you. OK.

I see. OK, thank you. That’s interesting. This is exactly kind of questions, which our European partners would have, which is they are interested in the practical structures on how they could actually make good sense of it. There are practical things they could learn and bring back to Taiwan.

Yes, I know. The thing is that it’s a problem of mandate quite often. Not a legal mandate, but in a way of who is responding how? That’s a painful issues quite often politically as well. The experts know how it should work, but the political reality doesn’t really correspond ...

Sometimes in Europe, it is not really clear who should be the main responding body. In some of the European governments including the Czech Republic or others, our electoral systems actually mean that we have coalition governments. It’s not one party like in the UK around the whole government.

Yes. For European context, usually we would have a Minister of Interior who is in charge of basically disinformation in some areas. Then we have Foreign Ministry, which looks at foreign policy disinformation. Sometimes, Defense Ministry, but it’s really military oriented usually.

No, thank you. Just to ask the final question on this. If I understand it well, you are basically the policy pusher. You are the one who is trying to change the way how the government operates on specific issues from your position. While the other minister is actually in ...

I’m just seeing what else, which other places on the map are there, so people can learn from virtually.

Thank you. I’m asking is that when we talk and plan those visiting policies for, let’s say government experts from some European countries, we’ll basically be putting together a plan for them. Where can they learn what? With some of the things, it is quite clear with you. It’s very ...

Not yet.

May I also ask if you could give us an advice who are here. I’d say the best partners to engage with. You mentioned most of them you already worked with the FDI, DSR, the Doublethink Lab, the usual ones, but is there somebody else you think is working…

Mm hmm, it makes perfect sense.

That will be perfect to budget.

That will be perfect.

OK, I’ll be in touch and we’ll see how we could be of good use of it and well.

Go on a government strike. OK, wow.

Yes. From Brussels to Prague is two hours by flight. It’s always very easy. If you’re already in Europe and you are vaccinated, it is easy to travel. I think and I hope it will stay that way. That should be easy for you to use that part as well.

Yes, it is.

As you mentioned the knowledge from Taiwan, which is a great export, you personally, your story, and the way how you do it in Taiwan is a great export for Taiwan as well. Your physical presence if it would make sense in the future during any of your trips to ...

Very good, because for example, if you would be in Brussels during your trip, it would be worthwhile to actually possibly extending your trip for about two days. If you would be already in Europe, it’s quite close to get by, for example, to host you in Prague.

That makes sense. It was good. May I ask, how are you? You’ve been engaging also with the Lithuanians. Forward with some of the invitations, they wanted to have you speak at some of their events as well. I assume you are not traveling that much, because it’s…

The GCTF is very good actually, how it’s structured with the US and Japan, it does make sense, because it allows European governments to jump into it much easier than if they did it only bilaterally. It’s a good format to be used, I’d say, foreign policy wise.

Because even with the quarantine, if a person is here for three or four months and I see it on ourselves when we are here for four months ourselves, we could get a lot of experience, knowledge, direct contact with people, much better than if you are here only for ...

I know. That’s why, it’s hard to distinguish from everything else for some of the participants. The physical part, that’s what I’m trying to press on the physical part, meaning, the visiting fellowship in the future.

Yes, and I’ve been talking at a GCTF and TFD did it two months ago. I was one of the speakers as well.

Yes, it does.

GCTF.

May I ask, do you have some let’s say projects or activities like this ones of sharing practical knowledge on communications with some other governments or…

To keep it sustainable, we need to have these practical things like that.

I know, it does. It’s important.

There’s a way how to start a snowball effect across Central European governments, so that they feel like they are getting something very practical with cooperation in Taiwan. Also, it’s not only a PR exercise, is something very practical. That’s what I think actually.

That’s my hope, because that’s where I see, let’s say, the practical interest in Europe who want to get that knowledge from Taiwan. The other way around, we want to use this tool for showing publicly that engaging Taiwan actually makes practical sense for Europeans.

Yes.

It motivates them to start doing it. When they have those practical things of sharing, this is what they can then tell the other Europeans and say, “Look, we are having this with Taiwanese experts. Maybe you should consider it too. We have a place if you want to join.” ...

Exactly. It actually motivates the others to start engaging Taiwan, exactly. That’s what happening now in Estonia, where their political and expert establishment is very much feeling jealous of Lithuania, which is having all of this cooperation with Taiwan and Estonia is not yet.

I would use one more foreign policy term, which could be useful. I call it “the jealousy tactics.” What we need to do is that countries which are opening to Taiwan, like Czech Republic and Lithuania, need to be seen by other Europeans. That they are getting something more incorporation ...

This is actually what, most of the time, the government officials we talk to in the Central Europe, this is what they appreciate the most. They can read the papers and read reports, but when they want to share, let’s say, government official to government official, they need to do ...

This is what you cannot do at conferences, because people are not going to say this on a panel. They will say it, if they are here for a couple of months, talking to each other. They can share lessons learned in practical sharing sessions, let’s say, but usually, this ...

Meaning, usually specific ministry officials at mid level, who are not politically motivated or affiliated, but who are government experts, who can say, “Look, this is where we screwed up, and this is what we should have done better, and this is what I think you could learn from us, ...

That’s the learning, which is practical, because some of the research is very quantitative. You have to look at the data, but in many ways, it’s good to talk to people who are in charge of responding.

When they feel they are in a, let’s say, a trusted space between partners, they can actually, and they quite often do share their case studies. Meaning, that they can share, “Look in our elections last year, this is what happened. This is what we did. This is what we ...