Absolutely great! I think that is great! Can we have a picture together…?

That would be absolutely great.

A good argument for you to be physically there is that you could also talk with government officials like, say, from the Federal Chancellery and show them ways. Because they are still in a…

In your case, it has also like impacts. That can be distinguished a little bit.

Yeah, that is true, that is true – especially if you travel around like just for fun.

Yeah, but we think it is by force. [laughs] In your case, we can be more flexible.

That could also be a way.

That would be really great. I think you could really help to show to the Swiss government…

OK, but I think we could also do it just then. OK, yeah. I will talk with…

OK! So perhaps we can do it around there – so you need to travel less.

We would like to have someone like you or, better, you to speak there in Switzerland opening up civic tech conference or so. And then we can do panels, and offer talks, and have a discussion if you can also… if Taiwan can also help here?

And we need like an approach where the government reaches out to people or where we even have a like position like yours – where like a connection is being made to like civil society.

That is is really fun. And this stuff always happens a little bit like this. So they just create a project and also the electronic ID – also Renat Künzi mentioned it, I read it.. That is also done, in our opinion, in a wrong way which will lead to ...

…which is centralized and run by, in the end, two companies, which is Swiss Post and Swisscom, in a centralized fashion – even in a way where it is written in their own risk report that a single inside attacker can like… leak everything. That is not acceptable.

Next year they want to introduce an electronic patient system…

That is a nice approach. Some of that is a problem we have here. To take this e-voting thing, but also other projects which are very big – they started like as projects from the administration. They never talked with anyone from the basis from the civil society. Then, at ...

We would very much love to have you as a keynote speaker which like says what you are doing here and this approach that you are running. That you are taking like things from the bottom up and then trying to bring it to the government. You say you are ...

The federal government is basically based in Bern. Also, I know Renat Künzi said that in September there will be a similar event anyways. Let us look at that later, perhaps.

We can do that in Zurich, Bern, or wherever.

About the democracy project there, I also read a lot. I will ask things here about, what we would be very interested in, by the way, is if you, like say, next year, if you are in Europe around or if you can come specifically, we would like to have ...

If someone enters there and wants like…

Diplomatically, it is also difficult because you do not have embassies and…

Yeah.

Is there an official position of the Taiwanese government saying that they should…

Yeah, of course.

Yeah. Hong Kong was a transit station, yeah.

While he was flying over there it was canceled. He wanted to go to South America in the end.

OK. Yeah. The problem is it is a political thing there. Could, in theory, Assange and Snowden get asyl…

The first time was catastrophic, because there were like Tibet people around. Second time, they like needed the protection of, they made a view protection…

Switzerland, by the way – that is a bad thing of Switzerland – recognized the PRC as the very first country. That is why China, I mean, PRC China and Switzerland are very big friends. Of course, when there is a visit in Switzerland, they need to hide a little ...

I mean, in the sense of – diplomatically.

Yeah, what is Taiwan’s take on Assange and Snowden, as the country is not recognized by almost… any other country? I mean, even Switzerland…

That is why I want… so I need to stop. I also wanted to talk about other things.

What is the time?

There, by the way, I also heard that on some systems, only C89 is supported, so we even need to change some things, such that it works – it compiles at all.

…and to build pEp, we need to make…

Yes.

As far as I know, I might be wrong, there is also like software running directly on these z/OS machines. That is why we now need to port pEp…

…and the adapter which is being used most now in these banking projects is the pEp JNI adapter, Java Native Interface, because as you say it, Java is…

We are exploring that, but to use the engine, you shouldn’t use directly the C API. We have bindings around it or adapters…

I mean, we have an adapter concept… I mean, pEp engine is written in C99 for portability reasons. We would like have Rust, but for that, we must make sure that it also runs… really on all platforms.

Most of the bank projects we are in now with this pEp thing are using…

That is a good question. I think it is on…

[Laughs] Yeah, of course, but you need to adapt it. It is about z/OS, basically, because if now want to have pEp there… because we are relying on… all things GNU…

That is also nice now, because of these bank things, we now need also to port like pEp for to mainframes. We also need to give changes upstream back to the GNU project, because you need to make sure that things like GNU make run at all on mainframes, because ...

OK, yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that I know.

OK.

So, that is also a question now here… if Taiwan is… if encryption also plays a role here, or also in these, ehm, these white hat hack things you do, if that is also a topic. If you can just fake messages, or if it is more about the end… ...