[laughs]

That’s amazing. We talked a lot about inbounding, so people come in to Taiwan. I also want to have the conversation the other way around in terms of what you’re bringing from Taiwan out to a more global international context as well for the arts and for artists.

I was surprised that she said that. I was like, “Oh.” She’s like, “Well, nobody really matters to you, because you speak Chinese,” and I was like, “Yeah,” but it’s not something I had really thought about. I was like, “The Taipei is so international.”

Maybe, she wasn’t in Taipei. She was put maybe potentially in Kaohsiung. I don’t know, actually.

Well, she was just saying she had a hard time navigating just because she was so surprised that most of the people, they don’t speak English. Do you think that that’s still true just because if there are artists wanting to go on moved, there needs to be a language?

Sorry?

No, absolutely. It’s really important to be able to go be part of a community. However, I do have a question. A friend of mine, she’s a magazine editor. She was in Taiwan a few years ago. She said to me, “You know, they only speak English,” and I was ...

That was literally my teenage years.

I basically grew up with a lot of Taiwanese kids, where we all sang all the Jay Chou songs. We went all to karaoke. [laughs] We all have the [Mandarin] and we have the [Mandarin] and all that.

I love Taiwanese like [Mandarin] . I love them. I think it’s because I grew up with them. I grew up in Vancouver. At the time in the ‘90s, basically, though the immigrants were Taiwanese and people from Hong Kong.

No, it’s very, very different. Even living in Europe and having a government and support to artists, it’s quite different because Taiwan is so much smaller. That sense of the handicraft and having the museums and all that, it’s the preservation from what I have seen. It’s very different like ...

I find that, when I was doing research, there’s so many resources available in Taiwan in terms of supporting artists on a government level, which I haven’t seen before and especially with your position. It’s also something that I’ve never seen before. I just thought it would be so useful ...

That’s where it becomes really tricky because you can only sit in the corner of your room for so long, which I feel like we all know at this point with COVID. I’ve sat in the corner of this room for nine months, basically. That sense of the connection, it’s ...

Again, sometimes, it just feels like you’re so lonely because you’re just like this especially when you go to art school. They teach you to be this lone genius and that you have to create everything on your own except when you leave art school and realize that what you ...

Amazing. Basically, I’m fairly covered. Then, does the community on the gold card also…Can I be friends with people? Would I be able to go out and find a group of people like minded people as well?

How would I be able to go and do that, once I’ve now get myself over to Taiwan?

Definitely. Taiwanese food is amazing. How would I be able to go “break into the industry?” Because standard practice is you may look for representation. You may be applying for grants. You may be applying for residency. You are looking for other people to go and do group shows.

The night market.

Wow, that’s amazing. In terms being kind of “break into the art world,” so I’ve now applied for this gold card. I’ve been accepted. I’m going to transition and move halfway around the world and eat amazing Taiwanese food, which is one of my favorite cuisines and goes to the ...

I suppose, with this gold card that you have now mentioned, are there benefits? If artists were to go and apply for this or…? For instance, I am just about to graduate from art school, and it would be a good opportunity to move to Taiwan to go and further ...

It’s like, “Oh, you don’t necessarily cater for public art, or you’re not interested in culture, or you’re not interested in communities.” This quite a while ago when I was applying more for public art-related things. That really has shifted in the last 10 years as well.

That’s amazing. The list is very encompassing. That’s really nice. Sometimes, again, you feel like it’s so segregated. That’s so limiting. You’re like, “Oh, I don’t fit into the silo,” or “This isn’t the criteria you’re looking for, which is what I found quite often when I’m trying to apply ...

For me, when you’re saying that art is the future culture. It’s the future. It is absolutely the future. We can’t have that sense of community, and that sense of the connection without something about binds us together which is firstly humans. Secondly, it is the arts and culture. It ...

A lot of times that governments are just like, “No,” but yet don’t use that as a messaging. It’s so contradictory. This is actually why I started my PhD is because the message is very contradicting.

As a person from the arts, it hurts my feelings because I’m just like, “Whoa, because you can’t quantify it,” except you can quantify it. The qualifiers are so, I guess – what’s the word here – they’re not strict.

My teaching is very much the first assignment is for students to go to a museum, and a lot of my students have never been sent to museum before. As the future, it’s so contradictory to hear government say, “Oh, we’re going to go and cut funding for the arts.”

Yet, when we really look at what has happened with COVID, people having to be at home. People like wanting that connection. They always turn to the arts. It’s always somehow with culture, whether you’re doing crafts work at home with your kids like what do you think craft workers, ...

100 percent. Oh, my God. It resonates with me so much especially because of COVID. A lot of people, especially in the West think that, “Oh, we can defund the art.” It’s always the first thing that gets defunded when budget comes into play.

Actually, we can just do that because that’s better. Sorry though.

I’m sorry. I didn’t hear you.

Are you recording right now?

Do you have a recording?

Sure, can I just pause you for a second and then I can start the recording? Is that OK with you?

[laughs]

I really wanted to use all the resources that you have, whether it’s inbounding or outbounding from your perspective to talk about the conversation and open that up.

When you’re young – when I’m saying young, you’re 20, 25 – you’re just like, “Well, I don’t understand.” It’s like these invisible walls that everybody knows. At my age now, I’m just like, “Well, yeah,” because you’re supposed to know them, but no one tells you what they are.

I find that…It’s not true. When there aren’t enough resources available or when you think that there are all these brick walls, it makes you feel just so limited, and the art world is already so limiting because there’s so many rules, and everyone’s seems to know them.

No, I think a lot of times we should be also limits in terms of like, “Oh, we can only be applying for these awards in these areas because that’s all that we know, and we don’t know what’s happening in other places in the world.”

They’re curated. [laughs] I would like to do both for me. It’s very much about time but in the shed together, but also at the same time pointing resources like what you guys offer to other people Sylvain.

Both are very curated.

The industries in the world are saying, “Oh, we’re going to change for you.” No one’s going to ever change for you, ever. [laughs] It’s silly if they think that they would. Being able to go and have that conversation with you in terms of the resources available, I would ...

I’ve been there so many times at this point. I know it’s so frustrating. COVID does not help. Students are like, “What do you mean? How does that impact my career?” [laughs] I was like, “How does that not impact your career?”

Anyway, I do a couple of things of this recording, if you don’t mind. I haven’t started the recording yet. We’re transitioning to a different platform for To Practise_Practice. I would really love to speak to you about the resources and finding communities for early career artists and art students.

Basically, that is what I wanted to do, just still in plug myself and in case you capture me.

Yeah. [laughs]

This is why I wanted to speak with you because I understand that the initial step that you guys do is very much about bringing in that conversation, whether it’s inclusivity, whether it’s providing people with more resources to help artists to get opportunities, basically. That’s why I wanted to ...

The art world is very small, but it’s not very small at the same time. The people, especially the community of early career artists and art students, they don’t necessarily always know that there are resources beyond what they see.

They were like, “You know, the government really supports the art industry,” which is rare for Asia, of course. I was like, “No.” When I read and listen to a lot of your interviews, I was like, “It’s amazing.” I think that we need to open up the conversation, especially ...

I was reading the “Harvard Business Review.” Your interview came up, and I was just like, “Oh, that’s so interesting.” A lot of people used to ask me, they’re like, “Oh, do you spend time in Taiwan?” Because I lived in Hong Kong for a while. I was like, “No.”

They never teach you what you need and what people want from you. Students also don’t necessarily want to hear it when they’re in school as well, because they’re just like, “Oh, I want to make because I love it,” and you’re just like, “You need to make money,” [laughs] ...