Good.

Well, it was wonderful particularly this meeting this morning with the conversation and having the four committee members say that’s right working with environmental SDGs. I think we...I personally got an impression that Taiwan could offer a lot to the world.

We need to know how to get to the world basically because of all the challenges. Other than that, I think a lot of...There are some peculiar stories around cases that we could also share.

Particularly when it comes to the ecosystem, the mountain ecosystem, how...

...30 percent of the land is being occupied by the mountain. The mountain is 2,300 to 3,000 millimeters of rain falling in days’ time, very torrential and subtropical. I think that’s a unique case.

And the fact that this mountain will cover now and coming from a human and livestock touch gives me an impression that on that side of the country, actually you...I mean the mountain is consuming more carbon than releasing carbon.

So how would this we tell to the world? Also, my whole idea is, there is no better thing than the SDG as a platform to break actually the impediments that you have in order to be able to share your experience to the world.

This platform is an apolitical platform. This is supposed to be a platform that...

...politics, human rights, and human experience, everything. I think the sky is the limit when it comes to this platform.

My impression is, don’t hit the rock. Look for the soft land areas, and work on the soft areas. Build that confidence and more align more friends around that. Then move to the rock, but there are still soft areas that you can explore.

SDG is one of that. Climate change is a global citizens’ issue. It’s not a big or small country. It’s not a poor or rich country.

Exactly. You couldn’t get more opportunity than this one, actually, to see how you can move out of the quagmire situation that is there right now. Otherwise, you will suffer from the stereotype, and also suffer from the chicken and egg stuff.

If you don’t build that confidence, you do not have moral right. If you stay away and just talk about the rhetoric as a single song all the time, then you will not help yourself, and you will not break from the shell.

That’s my observation, and a lot of Taiwan seems like working very hard now on Taiwan SDGs, but there is nothing like Taiwan SDGs practically. 54 percent of SDGs are national, but 46 percent are global.

You need to go to the world out there. You need to be part of the dialogue. They need to be part of the discourse, to contribute the successful stories like this one, and also maybe challenges as well. That’s what we say, and HLPF is one platform.

As you know, people are going there and reporting, but HLPF is reporting somewhere. This is the story that you are telling. It’s one thing to tell the story, but it’s another thing to bring people at it.

Can you do it? That’s what I talked to the vice president this afternoon.

I think the peculiarity of the ecosystem is extremely important. Look, the coastal issues of science around the coast, you can have, in many countries, this kind of thing. If you go to New Jersey in the US...

Right. This one is completely different. This is completely different. This is the one place where you have the big ocean and the mountain together.

Also, you can tell that, this is not a subtropical environment character. A lot of countries will have this kind of thing. Their water challenge is completely different. This one’s very peculiar. If I were you, I would clearly start building cases around this.

I mean what really concerns me is like having all these kind of great ideas. How do we really see off these things, spot them and measure that and all these ideas becomes products and products becomes something...

I think if we continue to do this, for sure I mean it will have some effects for one or the other. But at the same time, we want to see how we can use what we have in hand...

I think really like take stock of what we have done so far and make it a case, make it a product, make it something so that on the platform that we are talking, these kind of ideas can be marked as a case and then with some kind of theories on the back and forth, people take it as something that Taiwan contributed to the world.

It’s good to go through this Asia-Pacific, because before you go to the global, it’s good also to say, you have something that relate the region. This thing is national, the regional...

It’ll also help you to focus on common issues. Also, when the jury do the evaluation, they have common values that they take into consideration.

Your strategy should be how to build online.

Before you go into the peer thing, if you just start engulfing something around you, then expand, and then expand, and looking for soft targets, as I told. Then using the soft platforms...

Then what will happen is, when you go to make a case, you’re not longer talking about the bilateral cases. You are talking about, this is a citizen’s right. This is citizen’s project, citizen’s right. How can three million people do not have that right to contribute?

This is something that any citizen anywhere, whether in the moon or...

Right, exactly. That is how this thing is strong. Your narrative should be changing around the issues. That would help a lot, as far as we’re concerned.

Your work on capturing the values, you said, the tripple bottom line. Have you ever thought of actually capturing the real cost or cost of production?

I was trying to read a report shared by the EPA. They’re talking about carbon custody and this kind of thing. This seems like, as a new design for airline industries and this, but in real sense, every cost of production now.

The one that we use is just the production cost. We are not costing all the eco services. This is a model that I believe it might work for you, very simply. You have already some sort of foundation on these kind of tasks.

Every production has to be costed now. Every production has to start costing the eco services. The models have not...

Minister, look. Our way of actually production will never change. We still think like increasing production is...

Right. Until such a time that we start really costing what increasing production really costs you...

You can look up on something like bringing the service, rather than the product. People need the service, so you don’t have to bring the product, if you will be able to bring the service.

When you cost that, then nothing will be profitable. Then everybody will be sharpened and start looking on how to deliver the service, rather than the product, because this part is the big part of the cost.

That side is like the heaviest example. Ownership is a liability, absolutely. That’s what I mean. Why do you have to own when you need a service? You need a ride. You don’t need a car. You don’t need a car.

You have a car because you need a ride. If you provide the ride, then why do you have to need a car? If the ride is available as the simplest service ever, then everybody will stop, because now, we don’t have confidence. That’s why we need to have our own car.

If we get out of that thing and build a system that actually guarantee the service is available, then the ownership will be the liability.

Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. The gross thing will be completely different.

Exactly. Until such a time where we get to that stage, we will not stop exploiting the eco services. This theory of achieving SDGs within the planetary boundaries is not going to work, because the planetary boundaries are already being violated.

Look, our history in the last hundred years is about increasing population, aging societies, lifetime, average lifespan. Everything is increasing, because there is no limit on the resource for eco service.

That’s actually one thing that, based on your experience and what you have done so far, I think if you build that, that would be super, super novel contribution to the world. Nobody’s capturing this thing now.

Excellent. How do you try to tackle the aging issue?

The data shows that at that age, for example, in Japan, six percent of them have dementia. You can’t even communicate. They can’t even...

They are now trying virtually to craft a new insurance system, because they don’t even know what they sign for. They don’t even know what they’re contributing. It’s becoming very complicated. The insurance companies are working on a special insurance...

Right, for dementia, because their number is growing. Six percent is...

Interesting. The other analysis is like Japan now, 64 percent of them are above 65.