And I don’t quite know in the DSNP idea, whether the generative AI would belong in the space itself, like part of the structure, or it would be like just the assistive bots to each user.

Okay. And the second question is, when you talk about like a general idea around generative social, it’s difficult to imagine based on that description, right? Because it could mean two things. It could either mean a sort of chatbot-ish thing that serves as one of the facilitators in a ...

Okay. Great. So, I have two clarifying questions. One, you mentioned that MeWe switched to DSNP, but I read that it wouldn’t do so before December. So, is it like accelerating its schedule to switch to DSNP? If I sign up to MeWe, am I already using DSNP?

Okay. Please proceed. I’ve read your website which seems like pretty detailed. But as you mentioned, like generative AI, these are new topics so I would welcome any updates.

Excellent. So how shall we proceed?

Excellent. And we’ve got a full hour. We’ll make a transcript, we’ll co-edit for 10 days, and we’ll publish to the comments.

Okay, thank you. Thank you for your time.

Do you have anything to say as a concluding remark, maybe from Ben?

Thank you.

Let’s work together to ensure Taiwan’s long-term existence — the foundation of long-term relationships.

Okay, excellent. The previous years of presidential hackathons, many of the ideas were incubated by the open contracting partnership for the transparency and accountability in government procurements, again, to prevent greenwashing. But I don’t think this imagery has been used extensively in the previous couple of years, so it will ...

So, the scoring this year is very interesting because you have to be open, digital and green, at least two out of the three. So, to provide its democratic value, its digital transformation value and its sustainability value, and if an idea takes care of all three values, it automatically ...

We just kicked off. The registration to participate is today and ends on May 31st. And there’s a handbook on how to participate. So, maybe you or one of the teams that work closely to you… You mentioned a lot of teams already like possible connections of your previous NASA ...

Well, we run the presidential hackathon.

So, if one or two of the teams that wins this year’s Presidential Hackathon uses your real-time data, forestry data, or any imaging data, then it does the convincing for us, right? Because there’s the legitimacy across all the different ministries and the embassies to Taiwan as well. So, I ...

And I think it is really possible as part of either the TASA, as part of NASA Space Apps Challenge, or more easily with our upcoming Presidential Hackathon to work as kind of a demonstration, because the top champions, like the two champions of International Track of our Presidential Hackathon ...

So, maybe that can be an element in it but of course it will require inter-ministry coordination. I expect, because this transcript will be co-edited for 10 days and opened. And I assume that this part will be less read-active than the first half of our conversation. What I will ...

So, while I’m not very tuned in on the details of their work with the environmental ministries around the world including our own, I am aware that they are working on a public digital infrastructure for the kind of carbon counting that you just mentioned.

Okay, great. So, as I mentioned when we met in San Francisco, in my ministry there is a dedicated department called Democracy Network that works on decentralized use cases — we have a Plurality section for web3, we have a civic tech section, but we also have a net zero ...

So just to ask a clarifying question. You said there is a real-time feed. Is it a public feed that people can verify like an Oracle function on the blockchain? Or is it a private subscription?

Is it just downloading from the satellites? Or do you also have uplink bandwidth?

So, we talk with like one web, you know, with the usual suspects TASA, SES to make sure that we are asymmetrically at an advantage when it comes to the heterogeneity. Now, I think TASA will understand this particular use case. They also understand that by working with multiple providers, ...

Yeah well, I just pasted you the current satellites. So, from my own experience, because I’m in charge of communication resilience for the time where the submarine cables are caused by earthquakes… And so of course, we work with TASA, but they also understand that because of our unique resiliency ...

Yeah, I would be very interested in that. Yeah please, Will.

But for more exploratory uses, that is to say, things that may or may not land next year is research, and that is the science and technology council. Of course, I’m a council member, but TASA is part of the NSTC and not our ministry, which is why, because for ...

Yeah. Because our work in the ministry — aside from cyber security — we’re also in charge of presidential hackathon and many other civic tech activities, if it’s already ready to be co-created with the private sector and the civil society organization.

Yes, so do you have an existing relationship with TASA who are planning more or less the same use cases with our Central Weather Bureau, Ministry of Agriculture, Environmental Ministry, and so on? Like do you already have contact with our space agency?

Okay, great

So, there’s already a NASA imagery-friendly student and professor’s community that can use the imagery and discover good uses, so if you search for NASA Space Apps Challenge Taiwan, you’ll see their particular use cases. And NASA, through the de facto embassy AIT, has reached out to us to gauge ...

There is of course. Doctor Chiueh already mentioned TASA. The space agency worked with NASA on the NASA hackathons which you should know already. And the Taiwanese teams I think won top prizes for a couple consecutive years.

The current relationship with the Central Weather Bureau with the MODIS and the VIIRS-carrying satellites - Terra, Aqua, and Suomi illustrates this use case. So, this is something that Taiwan is already doing and I was just thinking of ways that the Taiwanese public and MPs are already like quite ...

Sure, we do have waterboxes, that is to say, a comprehensive water quality sensing instrument that is part of our civil IoT platform. So, we’re quite confident, if not super confident, of the actual cause of river pollutions because we know where to look at and because rivers are fixed ...

Right, illegal pollution in Taiwan. There are many, for example, people burning like… farm lands…

Then, two questions. First, is the license open enough so that we can actually share it to the civil society organization analysts? That’s the first one. And the second question: How well known is your satellites used for this sort of use cases in the international community, in the public ...

Yes, so I’m interested in the sustainability of the cases. Say that if we want to provide it, for example, to spot new pollution centers, like people burning green stocks or whatever…

You are far too humble.

Sure.

And we’re actually planning future visits to Australia later in the year, so maybe Australia would be a natural place to meet up. But you also mentioned flying in from Singapore isn’t that difficult either, so I’m satisfied with that answer. Thank you.

Okay, Dr. Chiueh, as I understand, just returned from Australia.

Okay. Does this sound good to you, Will?

This is to both of you. Do you have other regional representatives that you would prefer us to visit or prefer them to visit us in Dr. Chiueh’s site? Maybe like… we can figure out a working level contacts once we receive your regional contacts? Or, if you, as you ...

Oh, I was just asking Dr. Chiueh because we’re having quite a few conversations with other satellite providers and constellation providers. So, I was about to ask exactly the same question like, what is your preferred structure going forward?

Great. Sorry, you go ahead, Will.

Okay, does the chair have any questions? Because I understand you have a meeting in less than an hour from now.

Yes, much better.

Yeah, it’s perfect now. Good.

Okay. It’s just to make sure your microphone is working.

Maybe Dr. Chiueh would like to say a few words?

That’s fine because Will just joined anyway. So, a proper round of introduction maybe? I’m Audrey Tang, minister of digital affairs, and also chair of National Institute of Cyber Security. And I’m here with our deputy minister, the CIO and CISO of our ministry.

Excellent. Well, maybe we’ll do the round of introduction after Will joins. This is my deputy minister of digital affairs, Dr. Herming Chiueh.