Great. Thank you.

Thank you. Also, the transcript?

If there isn’t anything else, that’s all my questions.

Thank you so much.

It’s still essentially the same system that you’re following. It’s just shortening the days.

You’re working on the bubble.

…donation the masks. I guess maybe this isn’t something you can answer, but eventually I guess borders may reopen. Is there a second wave?

I’m thinking of the future next steps. Now that things seem to have stabilized in Taiwan, there’s this outward…

It’s the assurance that you’re being taken care of, so then you become more voluntary in what you’re giving.

Is that everybody, even a foreigner, like if I was quarantined?

…of the time and space of this pandemic. Let me see. That might be it for me. Is there anything you feel like I’ve missed that…?

It’s just very clearly within the boundaries of…

It calms people’s fears that more of their private data is being taken.

Yeah.

Moving beyond the civic technology, I’m curious about the other ways the government has used digital technology. For example, the digital fencing with the telecommunications with mobile phones and quarantining people and making sure that they’re staying within…

In that way, you’re connected then and they’re connected to each other?

I see. You have someone from the health ministry here as well and…

Cool. That’s helpful. Can you describe to me a bit your ministry’s role and your team’s role in this whole ecosystem?

The exact number.

It feels messy, but at the same time, it provides almost like alternative ways for people to get at the same information.

That’s pretty amazing. What’s interesting is how you would think, like with civic tech, it seems like there is a multiplicity of versions or replicas of similar things.

It seems like people are just connecting over Slack to do this work with each other.

I’ve also joined the Slack group as well. I’ve been following all the different channels. How active are you on it? Are there other people in the government who are also active?

You were also part of that conversation and negotiation?

Did Google see this in the media, then reached out and said, “Oh, we’d be willing to sponsor”? That was how…

OK.

They’re donating their time and money to it? Are they collecting fundraising, or are other people donating money? How do you keep it going?

I see. To go back to the digital maps and the tools that were created for the mask-inventory systems, people are hosting it on their own?

People are just volunteering their time to do this.

Yeah. Is it…?

The state blessing. Just to go back to the other project, the air-sensing project, is that run by an NGO or how is it…

Does this almost like stamp of approval make it easier for these projects to get funding, to…?

Where do you see that developing in the future? Where is that going?

There’s very open communication between the hacker community and the government it seems.

No, it’s very gentle.

No.

[laughs]

When I hear about the way they talk about working with this or fighting this pandemic, the key things are transparency.

It also seems like the government is adopting those strategies as well.

Not totally…

I just find that really amazing that the government is willing to reach out to the people who were sort of anti-government.

Right. That’s very true. Just to step back a bit to make sure that I got all the information, can you describe to me the relationship between the hacker community and the government and how it’s evolved over time and how this example of the tools for the pandemic have…?

It seems like a unified, effective messaging is more important.

…single-payer system and that collected database, do you think this kind of method or strategy could work in places without this ease of being able to, because everyone could scan their ID card and immediately get masks?

Do you think, because I think a lot about coming from the US where we don’t have universal healthcare yet…

I see. That’s interesting. Where are things now in terms of…?

The civic technologists.

…is it also civic hackers, or was it working directly with the government there?

In South Korea…

…were able to gather and show? That’s pretty impressive. It’s also highly efficient, the speed of…