...I am cutting down air travels. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Maybe my robot...
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you for your time. I think these are very important issues to think about collectively.
That’s where we’re going, for sure.
I think the Swiss model of a longer deliberation before each referendum, even though it does cause fatigue, it also creates a better polity, a sense of polity.
Universal basic income.
Universal basic income?
If anything, it makes the tribalism more mutually reinforcing than anything.
I think basically makes it less like the four tribes within Switzerland.
100-page referendum booklet, who reads that? [laughs]
I know, I know.
Yes. That’s where we’re going.
If we only limit the referendums to the only thing that people can express, then maybe we just get Brexit every few years. [laughs]
Very much so, very much so.
It will also encourage the best of people for the 15-years-old and the 65-years-old, who care about the same thing, to build intergenerational solidarity. Whereas if it’s just one vote every two years, there’s no time for them to build, and no topic at all to build something...
I think there is one way, is just to make sure that there’s multiple chance of meaningful participation. Basically, weaken the referendums and the votes every four years. These are still democratic institutions, but if people can participate daily on the budgets, on the petitions, on the regulations, and ...
It is, that are exclusive.
Right, they’re empowered.
He petitioned that it should never be included as a referendum topic. We actually adopted that as well. The 15-years-old are really changing the world, at least in Taiwan. [laughs]
As a rule, referendum, just as you said, is going to count the majority of population, sometime to the detriment of the minority of the population. The human rights covenants are there to protect the minorities.
There is also a petition just recently. We met another 15-years-old, a guy in, again, senior high school that petitioned for the referendum act to be changed so that we cannot take away human right, as agreed by the human right covenants in the UN.
She said that it’s her civic class assignment to find a petition topic that can mobilize people. I think it’s really good that they can meaningfully participate in this way, without having to stop from attending class every Friday, which is happening elsewhere, [laughs] and effecting real change.
When the EPA initially thought the petitioner must be a very strong environmental activist to gather 5,000 people in such a short time. When we meet her, she is just a 15-years-old senior high school student.
We have a 15-years-old that petitioned for banning of plastic straws or any one-use plastic anywhere. The EPA is forced to respond. They are actually delivering. This year, they are just banning plastic straw for indoor drinks.
In Taiwan, maybe not. The 15-years-old in Taiwan are very powerful in their campaigns. Actually, the most powerful e-petitions we receive that had an impact, most of them are from 15-years-old.
Caters to the elderly.
We have our e-participation website. I maybe talked about it, but it’s 5 million user out of 23 million population, one quarter. We see two spikes in participation. One is 15-years-old, another is around 65. These two groups have the most time on their hands, and they think most ...
It is true, it is true. We’re actually fortunate enough to, I think, just engage the elders, like even in the earlier stages of dementia to just stave it off for longer, just by including them more into, for example, participation.
My grandpa doesn’t have any short-term memory to write to long-term memory anymore, so every day is a new day for him. [laughs]
My own grandparents, my maternal grandpa is 101 years old now. All four of them are still around. I am very fortunate. I still visit them twice a month. They actually benefit a lot from being able to digitally meet their doctors, and have a lot of just continuous relationship.
The aging population? Actually, that’s one case where digital diagnostics, digital telemedicine, and robotics and AI is already helping a lot. It is not a future sense. It is basically that enables a limited amount of clinicians to keep track of a large amount of the aging population.
We just need to amplify the cultural impact of our indigenous population, which by area, is half of Taiwan, but by population, less than three percent. We really need to amplify their voices.
Yeah, because we do have to have the endorsing ministries in order to, for it to happen. It’s not a purely digital thing, but I think it’s a great idea. Thank you. This ownership as liability thing, I think it actually agrees with most of our indigenous culture ...
They just have to say, "OK, which SDGs it’s correspond to?" That’s the only thing that we audit, maybe something like that. I’ll be sure to talk about it in our next social innovation meeting and see what the ministries think of it.
It’s harder to measure, but I think it’s worth pursuing. Maybe just like a partnership award that both of the sides, the mentors and mentees, provide some sort of quantifiable KPIs that they decide by themselves, certainly not the government.
That’s right, in a measurable way.
It’s more difficult to quantify.
It is basically rewarding business development and supply chain integration, which is great, but it’s not mentorship. Maybe we can actually give out special prize for mentorship. Of course, it’s harder to objectively judge whether the mentee actually learned something, you know what I mean?
Currently, I personally give out the Impact Award if they decide to integrate the SDG innovative companies into their supply chain, and they buy over five millions per year. Then I personally go and give an award.
Promote it. That’s right.
Like the TSMC Launch a Campaign and things like that?
It’s harder if you don’t have a financial sector that is clearly separate from the ordinary businesses. We are seeing that from the old bank, also, from other banks. The financial sector are providing some part of that service.
That is because, of course, as financial service, they want to be seen as a reputable financial service for those companies, because they will never compete each other, you see?